share interactive transcript request transcript/captions live captions
download
|
MyPlaylist
[AUDIO LOGO] ELLEN AVERILL: Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Ellen Averill. I'm the chief curator and the Judith H. Stoikov curator of Asian art here at the Johnson Museum. Welcome to the museum and to today's talk by Hakim Karimzada. This program is held in conjunction with the exhibition Hakim Karimzada, Herat and Me, which is on view at the Johnson Museum until September 15.
The exhibition features the calligraphy of Afghan artist Hakim Karimzada, a master calligrapher with many decades of experience in different types of traditional and modern scripts, especially those associated with his hometown of Herat. We're grateful for the support of the Stoikov Asian Art Lecture Fund for supporting today's program and for the Russell class of 1977 and Diana Hawkins Exhibition Fund, which provided major support for the exhibition.
The exhibition was curated by Sharifa "Elja" Sharifi, an artist and the former general manager of the National Gallery of Herat. For the last two years, Elja has served as a visiting scholar at the Johnson Museum of Art, supported by Global Cornell, the Institute of International Education Artist Protection Fund, and an Afghan challenge fund fellowship from the Threatened Scholars Initiative of the Open Society University Network at Bard College.
I'm proud to say that Elja is now a first-year PhD student in the Department of History of Art and Visual Studies at Cornell. I would like to express my thanks to Elja for introducing the museum to this wonderful artist and for so beautifully curating the exhibition.
We're so grateful to Hakim Karimzada for lending his artworks to the exhibition, and we thank him for his generosity of spirit, especially while meeting with students and faculty yesterday here at the museum. He spoke with five different Cornell classes, and during these sessions, he shared his love of his hometown and the enthusiasm and dedication with which he practices his art. So you all are in for a special treat today to be able to hear from him directly.
We thank Professor Seema Golestaneh for joining us today and to facilitate the conversation with the artist following his presentation. So now I'd like to invite Elja to come to the podium and introduce the artist.
ELJA SHARIFI: Thank you very much, Ellen. Hello, everybody. Thank you for being with us today. I have the pleasure to introduce artist Hakim Karimzada. Hakim Karimzada is a master calligrapher with more than three decades of experience in different types of traditional and modern scripts. Born in 1972, he comes from the city of Herat, a significant political, cultural, and artistic center in Afghanistan for centuries. Karimzada writes classical Persian and modern Afghan poems with red pen in various script styles, from traditional calligraphy and illumination to abstract calligraphy, painting, and script of his own invention called Nilofar.
During the first rule of the Taliban, Karimzada had been practicing calligraphy secretly at his home. After the Taliban were defeated, Karimzada was able to pursue his art freely and began teaching at the Herat Art School of Herat University. Along with colleagues, he established the Calligraphers Association of Herat. The Taliban returned to power in '21 and banned women and girl students from participating in the calligraphy association. Karimzada was teaching calligraphy classes at the National Gallery of Herat in '21 when he was forced to flee Afghanistan.
Now living and working in California, Karimzada combines the joy of abandon with color to create bold, bright, and daring pieces that tell his own experience of migration. For him, calligraphy celebrates his beloved hometown for Herat. And through it, he introduces the ancient culture and civilization of its people. Karimzada's presentation of each word evokes [INAUDIBLE] soul, passion, and struggle in human life, emphasizing that art can serve as a bridge to understanding others as well as ourselves. Please give him a warm welcome. Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [NON-ENGLISH]
[NON-ENGLISH]. In the name of God. [NON-ENGLISH]. Hello, everyone. It's my pleasure that I'm being with you with my nice friend and participants that they encouraged me to come here and do some short speech about my experience or about my calligraphy. Please pay attention and because I maybe sometimes I couldn't speak fluently or directly in English because English is not my language-- it's my second language. After I came here, I learned a few things about the English language. Yeah, please pardon me. Thank you so much.
Just I want to say something shortly about the Herat history, about this Herat association, calligraphy association, and some things about the Herat and Me exhibition. All these things we can see with this short presentation. Thank you so much for your attention.
Herat and calligraphy-- as you know, Herat is the center of Afghanistan, especially about Herat, people were talking about a few arts like a miniature calligraphy painting, some handcraft like these, and especially about the calligraphy is for all over the Afghanistan, we can say that Herat is the center of the calligraphy of Afghanistan because it has all the study about these arts. And I will say some things about that history.
Herat province is one of the historical provinces of Afghanistan, especially calligraphy has been one of the most widely heralded artistic traditions in Afghanistan. It established and grew up during the Timurid period, especially, because you know, in the Timurid period, some of calligrapher invented or initiated a new script of calligraphy such as Nastaliq, Shakasta and Kufi-- and not Kufi, sorry, Taliq.
And these people was such Sultan Ali Mashadi, Mir Ali Herawi, Sultan Mohammad, Khandan, Mohamad Obihe, and Sultan Mohamad Noor are these establisher of the School of Nastaliq in Herat because the Nastaliq in Herat is one of the oldest school and all over the world, especially in history world of the Persian.
Materials of the calligraphy-- sorry, materials of the calligraphy-- the key raw materials for calligraphy include qalam or pen. And it means the red pen is the main resource of the Herat calligraphy. Or, originally, we can say it is the resource of calligraphy. Traditionally crafted from a dried reed and cut with an oblique tip according to the particular style of calligraphy practice.
Especially paper, and also a kind of paper we call the vasli-- vasli is the oldest paper or specific papers we use for calligraphy from old time, from Timurid period up to now. And also, it has some traditional ink. It is a specific ink is about calligraphy. These are the red paint. It's made from bamboo. You know every-- you have some information about the bamboo as well. And some materials, like silk or some specific dishes, we need also penholder. Here also is the materials of calligraphy.
Herat Calligraphy Association-- Herat Calligraphy Association established in 1993. The main purpose of establishing of this association was enhance the traditional calligraphy between youngest people who are interested about the calligraphy art, especially about the Nastaliq calligraphy. It is common in Herat.
And the other-- from beginning time, it had seven members. And nowadays, fortunately, we have around 50 up to 100 members in this association. And I'm also one of the members of this calligraphy association. Nowadays, it provided an opportunity to calligrapher to transfer their knowledge and practice to others who are interested. And over 100 of student or pupils was trained by this association during the many years.
And nowadays, they are working as a teacher or master teacher of calligraphy. The student was from two generation or two male and female. During that time we established, we enrolled them and trained and nowadays, they are working as a master trainer in each of the province or different places of Afghanistan. And this is the association room. And this is the members of this association. Here, it shows the time of exhibition, not exhibition test or-- yes, test. During the test, they are following each of the period because the calligraphy has seven stage or period.
This is my achievement. However, the [INAUDIBLE] described about me some things, but about my achievement, some things I want to add-- create a calligraphy class for students, including male and female, creating over thousands of calligraphy works in different style and calligraphy script. Generated a special collection of Amir Ali Shir Nawayee. It's in Uzbeki language. It is different from Persian an Pashtu.
And creating modern and abstract collection of calligraphy-- the quotes of short speech of Holy Prophet Mohammad, and also developing Nastaliq teaching manual at that time, a collection of my journey-- it is another collection. Collection of Katebah, perpetual poets, writing of 500 students of tombs during my working time in Herat city and historical places. These were my achievements at that time.
And also, here is a Nilofar script of calligraphy in Herat that I invented 20 years ago. What was the reason that I created this new style or script? One reason was the market demand for new and modern works motivated me in that time to create new writing or new artworks by Nilofar script as an artist with long experience on calligraphy field to be more creative and prove my interesting and calligraphy world.
The other issue was to give a new and wide picture to thought of calligraphy to people that we should not always [INAUDIBLE] by old style because we need to create a new style, new issues, or new things for new generation with new subject. And this is the symbol of the Nilofar art. I think this one is here in showing and in the museum. But this was from previous exhibition that I opened in Alameda in California.
And these are my exhibition places. It was in Afghanistan. I conducted many exhibition, including calligraphy display, and participate in over 200 group exhibitions and 9 individual exhibitions-- 5 individual exhibitions in Afghanistan and 4 exhibition out of the country.
The first exhibition out of the country was opened in Qatar. And the second one was in Rhythmix Cultural Center. The third one was opened in Johnson Museum. It was a good opportunity for me also. The third one was established or opened in Los Angeles. There is some pictures from Herat in Kabul. This exhibition was in Afghanistan. This is in Maimana city or Faryab province in North of Afghanistan.
And this is some picture from the Los Angeles. Here was some for one day's exhibition. This exhibition was so specific, and they talked about my experience and about my historical work. Everything was about my experience. But the exhibition was so short. This exhibit picture shows the Rhythmix-- [INAUDIBLE] it was open in the Rhythmix Cultural Center. And the last one was also in Los Angeles.
However, I explained before, this is also one of my exhibition here. Here is in Johnson Museum-- messages describing for participants or for students, some who are visiting from that exhibition. And also, this is in Los Angeles.
This exhibition was for the first time it happened for my life, it was in Qatar camp after I left my country. But I open an exhibition. However, it was so simple, but it was a good memory for me at that time. This is one of this camp. Here are some of these pictures for showing. We celebrate in that time the immigrant days, I think. It was about the immigration days.
This is my journey from Herat to Johnson Museum. It was July 10, 2023. A chance knocked Hakim's door. That never thought it might happen one day in New York. That get knocked was Ms. Elja Sharifi. One day, she called to me. Hi, Mr. Karimzada. Are you ready to have an exhibition from your art. In that time, I became so happy in that time. I said, yes, why not? She said, I cannot confirm in that time, but just we are talking about this exhibition, when it will be happen, but the time was not clear.
But I'm so happy this exhibition happened. And according to this exhibition, these people, especially Ms. Ellen Ms. Elja advertised me to all over the world. And also, I'm so happy-- I appreciate your hard work. And from that time up to now, they encouraged me every time to-- it was one of the reason that I stand up on my feet.
One of the reason was that from that time, I opened another new exhibition in different parts of the United States, especially in Los Angeles and Alameda city of California. And from other side was the I create a new art also for other exhibition. I prepared my new plan for next future that it was so interesting for me. Yeah, thank you so much from all of you.
And, also, beside this, I had some challenge also. The one challenge was changing of the government in Afghanistan was a big challenge especially for artist people. And also restrictions for artists-- insecurity increased that threatened myself and my family's life and that time.
A banding of the female student because, in that time, was so boring for me, a few of my female students asked me, how we should learn the calligraphy and calligraphy association at that time because you remember, all the education par blocked for female. Yeah, it was so boring time for me, but I couldn't help for them.
The majority of artists left the country, and this process is ongoing is the other challenge-- shutdown of the galleries in Afghanistan that prevented displaying of artworks. Thank you so much.
Just I want to say something about this artwork. The name of this artwork or the title is Herat and Me. It describes my all life or biography from beginning up to now.
[SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: Basically-- I will translate.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: This is a combination of my imagining of the city of Herat. And the writing is his biography, actually. So it's superimposed on this landscape. If you notice this bottom section--
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So at the bottom of this painting, what's sort of offering the foundation of the painting but also the city of Herat is the Nastaliq script, which is one of the oldest forms of the calligraphy.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So the Nastaliq script, the script on the bottom, it's tied to the origin of the city of Herat. And that's why the [INAUDIBLE] has this foundation for that.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: The writing that's on the minarets and most of the shrine is the Muhaqqaq. What was the name?
HAKIM KARIMZADA: Muhaqqaq.
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: Muhaqqaq OK, sorry. The name of the script is Muhaqqaq. And so it's multiple scripts. It's the Nastaliq on the bottom, and then the minarets are the Muhaqqaq script.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: I chose the use the Muhaqqaq script on the minarets because this was popular to the Timurid period, which was the peak of Herati influence and culture.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So at this time, [INAUDIBLE] one of this very famous Quran, was written with this script-- what's one of those sort of masterworks of calligraphy from Herat.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So there's a few other different scripts. There's the Kufic script, which is in the middle, one of the oldest ones. There's the Shakasta style, which is in the white part that's there.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: This is the Nilofar.
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: Oh, I'm sorry. That's the Shakasta [INAUDIBLE].
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: Oh, around it, I'm sorry. So the white that he's pointing to, that is the Nilofar script, which [INAUDIBLE] that started his own. It's his very own calligraphic style. So it's one of the most modern. And the writing that's surrounding that is the Shakasta style.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So this is interesting. If you can see the lines, the long outstretched lines, they have the buds, the red buds and other things, that is actually letters outstretched that say, "Together, read the name Herat." So you have multiple forms-- this is me there, sorry-- there are multiple forms of calligraphy that are there. You have the smaller, tighter forms. You have the single word Herat on the city of Herat. And last time, we spoke [SPEAKING PERSIAN] And so if you see those--
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: Red dots, those are the two red dots of the [INAUDIBLE].
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: And so some of these are symbols, the shapes and sizes. [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: Oh, the [PERSIAN]. So this is the shapes that are there-- [NON-ENGLISH]. These shapes are very common also in the miniature artworks of Herat. So it's also an echoing of the miniature artworks, which are different from just calligraphy as well.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So this painting is-- so we say it's not superimposition, but it's a combination, to put it crudely, of his own biography as it's written on the minarets, but also the history of art in Herat through the calligraphy that's there. That is sort of the definition of the city. It's comprised of some of this calligraphy too.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SPEAKER: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So actually, these are not-- these are referencing specific architectural works that exist in Herat as it is currently.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
Castle of Herat.
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So yes, this is sort of-- I don't think it's castle. [PERSIAN] is sort of the-- palace-- yeah, castle/palace that are here. That's on this side here.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: Originally, there were nine minarets in Herat, but over the years because of various political conflicts or war, it's come down to five.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So this one is also looking at another historical building that's very indicative of what's very famous for Herod.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: Yeah, [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: That was the name of the--
SPEAKER: [INAUDIBLE]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: He was like a prime minister or-- not a prime minister, obviously, like a vizier, a political figure.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So this is a shrine for a famous woman figure, female figure. She was a-- who was a major patron of the arts at the time. She lived about 500 years ago. And it's one of the central pieces of within Herat today. And she supported the arts. And she was also a--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So this is from the Timurid period. She was a wife of one of the Timurid princes.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: Her name was also Gawhar Shad Begum. Sorry, I should say her name.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So there are other places throughout Afghanistan, especially in Herat, that are named after her. So she's a very important figure in Herat's history, but I think also [INAUDIBLE] in all of Afghanistan.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So the region that had influence over Afghanistan wasn't just bound by-- what we know as Afghanistan was not just bound by the current borders. Especially Herat was part of the larger Persianate world. So it was much more connected to other parts of the world-- South Asia, what we know now as Iran.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So those sections over there, the sort of [INAUDIBLE]. So these [INAUDIBLE] over here are sort of evoking the minarets or perhaps even the archways. This is the foundation of piety or devotion that resonates throughout the city. But it's also sowing sort of, again, the history of art throughout Herat.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So it's a little bit hard to see actually on this painting. But if you look-- not on this painting, on this image. But if you see there's some white, very thin writing-- very faint, I should say-- writing on the side here and also on this part here, this is very interesting. This is evoking, on the one hand, the far side, which is sort of chronologically at the end, evoking the future of calligraphy and styles that are still kind of inchoate and forming.
And on the other side, interestingly, it's also kind of faded, but the names that are written here, which actually we mentioned another time, are also the names of important historical figures of Herat. So you have these faint kind of shadows speaking to the future. But also, we're remembering the past and remembering the importance of the past. And so this is things that future generations of artists in Herat but also beyond will always be still creating. There's still things to create. I think I got that and most of it, yeah?
HAKIM KARIMZADA: Yeah.
[SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So this last image is of Nadia Anjuman, who was a calligraphy student--
HAKIM KARIMZADA: Not calligraphy. [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: Yeah, I'm sorry. She was a literature student. And she [INAUDIBLE].
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: And then you might wonder why is an image of someone's face through written through this kind of calligraphic style.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: Sorry, that was a lot. So he's relaying this important story as a form of remembrance because this was one of many students, unfortunately, who, instead of completing her studies, has lost her life.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: This is in the Shakasta style, the broken style, as it's called. And the idea is that she is someone from our city. She is someone from our generation. We want to remember. This is my form of remembering and seeing and keeping their memory alive.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: Thank you so much.
[APPLAUSE]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So I think we're going to do a little bit of discussion between with Elja and Ustad. And I'm going to continue my interpretation skills as we go on.
ELJA SHARIFI: Thank you very much.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
ELJA SHARIFI: I hope you aren't tired from my talking.
[TONE SOUNDING]
ELJA SHARIFI: It's OK. Thank you very much, Ustad. I'm so impressed with your art. And thank you very much for the wonderful presentation that you provided. So I have some questions about your art and your life in Afghanistan and your journey, of course, from Herat to California and now in Ithaca. So I try to ask the questions briefly because we just need to think about the time. But I'm going to ask the question in Persian, and I would be grateful to Dr. Seema Golestaneh to help us for translation.
[SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So the question is, Ustad, professor, you work a lot in the Nastaliq style. What do you think is some of the main differences between the Nastaliq style of the contemporary period versus from the Timurid period.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So there's some laughing about the difference between-- there's a preference for the earlier Nastaliq style. I think that's where it was a bit chunkier is some of the understanding. I know, I'm sorry, it was more delicate in the past, and now it's become a bit more chunky and clunky, if you will.
ELJA SHARIFI: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: Oh no, go ahead.
ELJA SHARIFI: [INAUDIBLE]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
No, I'll go ahead.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So the question was you pull from a lot of different imagery. You pull from miniature work. You pull from other almost kind of painting work. And then the response was, how do you kind of-- I'm using the word balance, but how do you incorporate these in two different ways. What are these different influence?
He says, well, it's important because these all have different histories. They're all kind of tied together in different ways. But I don't see a big separation necessarily between these different kind of genres.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: Yeah, it's interesting. So he's speaking a little bit more about the history of Nastaliq. And I think one of the main artists was Mir Ali Tabrizi, who was the main creator, of course, of Nastaliq, and how he pulled together these different forms. And it was just more [SPEAKING PERSIAN] two different scripts.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: One was Nas, and the other was Taliq.
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: Hence Nastaliq. And the literal translation-- and it's considered one of the most beautiful calligraphic scripts-- and the literal translation of nastaliq is sometimes called "the bride" of all the scripts.
[SPEAKING PERSIAN]
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: Yeah, the bride of the calligraphic scripts. I can't think of a better translation. I would think it would be-- you could almost say the Helen of Troy of the calligraphic scripts. But I think you get a sense of how it's valorized.
ELJA SHARIFI: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: I'll translate this one first. So she's asking about some of the materials and techniques that you use, particularly a type of the pen, the reed pen that's used. Can you speak a little bit about the different-- what is it specific about the pens you use, what generates-- what kind of style is it? What kind of feeling does it have? Let me see.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: It has specific qualities. The wooden reed pen has specific qualities that a metal pen would not-- does not.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So it has a certain flow that the other pen does not. This is one of its specific qualities that you can watch it move from one to the other.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: The reed pen has the flexibility. If we compare with the metallic pen, metallic pen doesn't have this specification.
[SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: There are certain movements that can only be done with the reed pen that can't be done with the metal pen. There are certain feelings that it also will go.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: These are pens that the materials are natural and put together something from the natural world, essentially.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So the question was about the calligraphers association that was started in Herat. You could see what was the need that was being fulfilled by this association, and are there works that are-- not even specific works. Are there projects or goals that they have that might be different from what might have existed in the past?
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So, in the past, actually, calligraphy would be taught more by a tutor. It would happen in the homes. But here, with the associations, it was a way for sort of everyone to make it available for everyone and also to combine the local practices with a more academic study.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So the idea was to have one place where all the calligraphers from Herat and the surrounding regions, but in the beautiful city of Herat, come together and then also have a way for people to further develop their studies as a way of pass forward. But we wanted to develop a community and bring them all together in one single place, which didn't exist before.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: There wasn't really a place for women and girls to study calligraphy beforehand. It was harder for them to just go to some stranger's house or something. So it was wonderful that they were also part of our program. They were very brave in coming and joining. And [SPEAKING PERSIAN].
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: I see. So the best female calligraphers will also have a place to come together and also have a place to develop their skills and see just great calligraphers coming from amongst the women and girls who were there.
ELJA SHARIFI: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
So I'm going to another question.
[SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So Elja was asking about the style that Ustad Karimzada himself has developed, which he calls the Nilofar style. Could you say what are some of the special characteristics of it? And Nilofar also refers to the lotus flower. And what prompted the name Nilofar, that prompted name the lotus script?
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So there's a number of reasons why the Nilofar style that he chose the name for Nilofar style. He gave one, but he wanted to give the other [INAUDIBLE].
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: One of the reasons for creating the Nilofar style was that the art market, the bazaar, the art market actually was really demanding like new creative styles. So that was one reason why he started it.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: There's a Herati poet named [SPEAKING PERSIAN] There's a Herati poet by the name of [INAUDIBLE], who wrote a poem that inspired Ustad Karimzada about what is it that you want to achieve? What do you want to go forward?
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So another thing is that the lotus flower actually grows in water. And so the roots of the flower are something that he likes, too, that also inspire him-- the flowing lines about something that's suspended and something that's in movement in water. So that's another reason for naming his script Nilofar, or lotus.
ELJA SHARIFI: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So just saying that you've lived in under various governments, various moments of conflict throughout Afghanistan. How has war influenced your work or just producing work, or how does it inform your work? And now that you live here in the safety of the United States, has that changed how you produce work?
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So short answer is war is disruptive. Artists named the [NON-ENGLISH], which is sort of calm, but I think it can also refer to a sort of peace or peace within oneself to be able to produce work. So during these times, it's very difficult to produce work. The heart needs to be-- disturb the creative uses when-- the heart isn't able to emote what it needs to do when there's too much disturbance.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So he's saying that he's actually been producing sort of a lot of work since he's come to America, and it just proves the idea that you really need to be in a more peaceful environment, that you need calm to be able to produce. So having this kind of new experience is actually-- of being in a place that's not marked by immediate conflict has allowed him to produce a lot more.
ELJA SHARIFI: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: [INAUDIBLE]
ELJA SHARIFI: So as I was the general manager of Herat National Gallery, so Hakim and I had some work together. And I had a show of his art at that time, around '21 in Afghanistan. I'm just asking, what do you think about that period and how do you describe the role of National Gallery for expanding and introducing art to the society and especially for your art?
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: Thank you. [INAUDIBLE] praising Elja's curatorial skills, as she was the manager of the National Gallery of Herat. And he was saying how, under her guidance, it was really transformed into a wonderful place. People would hang out and have tea. It was like, is this a gallery or is this a tea shop? But I think it was a place of a lot of conviviality and ideas were being exchanged. And it was also a place there were lots of different exhibits that were happening.
And it would be-- women were ever-present. They were exhibiting their works. They were participating in different workshops and things, both men and women together. And also, there were great-- and a lot of it was free, the programming that was happening, too. So the question was, what is the role of-- you heard-- of the National Gallery. So it was really a place of community in addition to just being a place to exhibit the works of the artists of Herat and other areas.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So another important point-- it seems like Elja also cultivated a very impressive library, and so it didn't matter if you were an artist, you were not an artist, a member of the public, but she was gathering contributions of books for people. And so that was also a really great resource. So people could take them out, and even if you read just a little bit of it, it was a great kind of place to find sort of inspiration and spark from this collection.
ELJA SHARIFI: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: She's saying this is before it turned into a tea shop hangout spot.
[LAUGHTER]
ELJA SHARIFI: Thank you very much. So I promise that this would be my last question because I'm going to pass the mic to the audience. I'm sure they have some questions. So [SPEAKING PERSIAN].
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So the question is, how do you feel about seeing your work within the Johnson Museum and placed amongst all these different artists that are here? Does it change your opinion of your work now that you've seen it displayed here? How does it feel before this exhibit-- before and after?
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: [INAUDIBLE]. So he's, first of all, very appreciative of the opportunity, and he thanks Ellen and Elja for working so hard to bring his works here from different places. And the first time someone offers you an exhibit, you feel kind of nervous, and you start thinking of the different things to pull. He said something else that was interesting was that it was quite a long exhibit. It was a few months, and I think that was different from some of his-- it was the longest one, perhaps?
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: [INAUDIBLE]
ELJA SHARIFI: So thank you very much. We're going to get some questions from the audience.
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: Yes. And he said that's enough. Let's hear from the audience.
HAKIM KARIMZADA: Yeah, thank you. So if is there any questions or please feel free to ask Mr. Karimzada. Thank you. I think [INAUDIBLE] has a question.
AUDIENCE: Thank you very much. And also thank you Elja and Seema for the questions and the interpretation. So I guess my question is, a lot of times that the way calligraphy develops, of course, it develops in two ways. One is monumental, so it's on buildings and architecture, and the other is on the book-- associated with the book arts, with manuscripts. So have you have you considered your work in relation to the book arts, or have you thought about working in that direction, I guess?
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
AUDIENCE: Like with that scale and that kind of format.
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: [INAUDIBLE]
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
[SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: So I still don't know if we had the question right. He's saying that he did some work very early on that was published in a book that was doing published, but nothing really from his own work has been published. But your question was more about the relationship of miniature work?
AUDIENCE: Yeah, and to work with the format of the book-- thinking about calligraphy or writing in relation to the book format. Yeah, he hasn't done really too much with that, but I think it's-- yeah.
[SPEAKING PERSIAN]
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: I see, so he doesn't do the miniature work, but ultimately-- so the influence of the work, some of the motifs he sees is mostly in this painting that he has from Herat and Me, where he says he wants to represent that because it's intricately tied to the history of Herat. But he has worked on some projects, some collaborations with miniature artists, where they've done work together. [SPEAKING PERSIAN] with paintings?
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: Yeah, Illuminated, yeah. So they have-- so yeah.
ELJA SHARIFI: Thank you for your question.
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, please, in the back.
AUDIENCE: Thank you very much. I will stand. Actually, my name is [INAUDIBLE]. I am from Afghanistan. I am from environmental basis. I am not from-- but I am very interested with your job. I saw that in a publication which is published by the Johnson Museum. It was very interesting for me that I came here and heard all the history, and I appreciate your dedicated job that you did for this job on your initiative, in this calligraphy and also artists' work you did.
Actually, you portrayed the history of Herat in your calligraphy and artist work-- it's a very great work, and just appreciated and thanks. And I hope you have very nice and bright future to develop this. And it's very important. Thank you.
ELJA SHARIFI: Thank you.
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
AUDIENCE: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
ELJA SHARIFI: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
ELLEN AVERILL: Anyone else? Yeah.
AUDIENCE: Just that you've spoken quite a bit about the wooden shaft pens. I was wondering about the ink-- what natural fibers and pigments are used for the ink traditionally?
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
HAKIM KARIMZADA: [SPEAKING PERSIAN]
SEEMA GOLESTANEH: It's very difficult to get the really traditional good stuff, essentially, so they tend to use a little bit more of a modern, cheaper equivalent. Sometimes they can import things from Iran, sometimes they can import it from India. But it's a very long process to create the traditional one and also harder to get their hands on.
ELLEN AVERILL: All right, well, thank you, everyone, for coming tonight. Thank you, Hakim and Elja and Seem for the wonderful conversation.
ELJA SHARIFI: Thank you very much. Thank you, everybody.
[APPLAUSE]
Master calligrapher and contemporary artist Hakim Karimzada discussed his work in conversation with Dr. Seema Golestaneh, associate professor in the Department of Near Eastern Studies at Cornell University.
Born in Afghanistan in 1972, Karimzada is known for bold and daring pieces that express his own experience of migration. For him, calligraphy celebrates his beloved hometown of Herat and through it he introduces the ancient culture and civilization of its people. The exhibition “Hakim Karimzada: Herat and Me” was on view at the Johnson Museum of Art June 6–September 15, 2024.
Dr. Golestaneh’s research is situated at the nexus of anthropology and religious studies. Her current project investigates the dreams and aspirations of Afghan intellectuals in the late 1980s and ’90s for forms of government and collectivity that did not come to pass.
Support for this program was provided by the Stoikov Asian Art Lecture Fund.
